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Former News of the World editor Andy Coulson has been released from prison after serving nearly five months in jail for conspiracy to hack phones. Jane: Well that was sort of going to be my next question, because undoubtedly your role at Downing Street heightened the interest in your trial. And that was, youve got to accept where you are. And although I stand by the position I took in court, in regard to the allegations that I ended up being found guilty of, my view is still that I didnt break the law. He was scheduled to stand trial in April 2015 but the trial was postponed to 11 May 2015 because of the general election. permanent tsb. And I could equally say, why on Earth did you do that, Andy? And, in fact, the last words from one of those prison officers to me as I was about to get on the bus were, Keep your head down, youll get through it, life moves on. It was an amazing place to be and it was fascinating and rewarding and I was reasonably good it and I loved my colleagues. Normally youre packing to go on holiday, but youre packing to go to prison. I think thats been an enormous help. Andy Coulson, the former newspaper editor and Downing Street spokesperson jailed on phone hacking charges, revealed that he has built a new career as a crisis strategy consultant - and "business. Very hard to get it down to 10 songs, let alone get it down to one, but I think if I had to choose one it would be Keep Your Head Up by Ben Howard, which is a bit of a family anthem. "[53] These charges were made about 1 year after the Metropolitan Police Service reopened its dormant investigation into phone hacking,[54] about 3 years after the then Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Service told the Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee that "no additional evidence has come to light,"[55] 5 years after Coulson and News International executives began claiming that phone hacking was the work of a single "rogue reporter,"[56] 10 years after The Guardian began reporting that the Met had evidence of widespread illegal acquisition of confidential information,[57] and 13 years after the Met began accumulating "boxloads" of that evidence, including sources for News of the World journalists while Coulson was editor, but kept it unexamined in trash bags at Scotland Yard. This article is more than 8 years old Andy Coulson, the criminal who had David Cameron's confidence Former No 10 spin doctor is found guilty of hacking charge while Rebekah Brooks is cleared of. Jane: So, youve known the power and privilege of being a newspaper editor and advisor to David Cameron. Pic credit: CBS. Ive got a better understanding of myself, I suppose, without wishing to get too airy-fairy about it. Andy talks about confronting his mistakes and the . Its an audit, right, when these things happen in your life. And it was, it was a much better regime. As a newspaper editor, its a weekly crisis, daily crisis when youre working on The Sun, which is of course where I spent most of my time, most of my career. Why the Conservative machine turns a blind eye to racism, Memo to Labour: make local politics a national issue, If anti-semitism isnt challenged then the fight against racism is doomed, Netflixs endless cancellations signal the end of the prestige streaming TV era, The best holiday cottages for a stunning UK minibreak, Podcast episodes to make you more productive in 2023, Vivienne Westwood didn't just make British fashion she was British fashion, The 15 most anticipated TV series of 2023, from, Print copies & Digital access for only 1. [18] On 3 June 2015, he was cleared of those perjury charges, since, if he had lied, it would not have been relevant to the outcome. The CPS said that witnesses interviewed by Metropolitan Police including those who had previously made allegations through media outlets had not been willing to provide admissible evidence. Youve got to be either black or white. No one knew that at that stage. Because the truth is, for the nearly year that I was there, I loved it, Jane. And when you see young men being separated from their families in that way, it is profoundly depressing. Which it was. Before Patrick's last year of High School he left . - Delivered a Conduct-focused approach and embedded cultural change focused on . Some people said that you deserved everything you got by going to prison and others, I think when you were talking to Richard Bacon in a previous podcast, he said that your sentence was very harsh. He commented about the News of the World allegations "I stand by what I've said about those events but when the spokesman needs a spokesman it's time to move on. That doesnt mean that Im pleased it happened, Im not. Andy: Well I think for most people, not all actually, but most people who go to prison it's the kind of beginning of the end because yes youre in a van, yes youre going to Belmarsh, but you know now you are on the road, actually, to the end. [23], In 2008 an employment tribunal upheld a claim of bullying by Coulson whilst he was at the News of The World. I mean thats why I think I have instinctively never really taken that sort of approach because I dont much like that. Its constantly incoming and my job, in fact, was to manage those crises. He had not been subjected to the highest level of vetting, "developed vetting", allowing unrestricted access to top secret material. And why? But I accepted the system. In January, a former News of the World journalist told the trial that his phone hacking skills were the main reason Coulson had hired him. There are a lot of very bad people in there and there are also a lot of people like me who are transiting, if you like. Jane: In his memoir, David Cameron wrote that he was wrong to insist that you were innocent until proven guilty and that he should have removed you in 2010 until the scandal snowballed. And that is not a good moment. [8] He was detained and charged with perjury by Strathclyde Police on 30 May 2012 in relation to evidence he had given in the trial of Scottish politician Tommy Sheridan in 2010, and cleared on 3 June 2015. Certainly, my upbringing. Coulson, 46, who also worked as director of . Andy: In the jobs that I did I never really wanted any profile. Youd get out for an hour and then youd be back in again and youd do anther 23 hours and it was boiling. Did you do a lot of that? But first and foremost it was a professional relationship and thats exactly what I wanted it to be and he wanted it to be. Thats why I love podcasting, actually, its that its not a formal interview process, its a conversation. [60][61], Coulson was to face a retrial, together with the News of the World's former royal editor Clive Goodman, after the jury failed to agree a verdict on two other charges of conspiring to cause misconduct in public office in relation to the alleged purchase of confidential royal phone directories in 2005 from a palace police officer. When you resigned, did you feel the sense of the crisis that was about to come your way at that point? Six former members of staff from the now defunct. Dublin. Actually, in the conversation with Chris Lewis we were discussing this. So, they made me an education orderly and I went and worked with a brilliant woman who runs the education programme at Hollesley Bay and I was effectively her teaching assistant, if you like. [27], After David Cameron became Prime Minister in May 2010, he appointed Coulson as Director of Communications for the government at 10 Downing Street. And I was able, very quickly totally different approach, totally different kind of attitude, the governor there, his view was, weve got you for a while and were going to make the most of it. I was working with people from another party and we all made that work really well. Discover Andy Coulson's Biography, Age, Height, Physical Stats, Dating/Affairs, Family and career updates. [21] It is a fact of my life and it is an upsetting fact of my life. Almost from the start of the trial, actually, because the profile of the trial was so high. It was that sort of combination of mind-numbing boredom, an awful lot of frustration because I was told that I would be in Belmarsh for a couple of days and then Id be categorised, given the nature of my conviction, be categorised as a D-Cat pretty swiftly, and then Id be off to an open prison. But we had a two-week crisis in our life, after Monty was born, in terms of the emotional impact of it, it was far greater because we felt we were going to lose him not long after he was born. Long before, in truth. Jane: OK, and finally you asked this of all your guests, the three crisis cures, if you like, and you know the rules; it cant be a person. And there were some jet streams in the sky, without getting too poetic about it. I think it probably did. You take some advice. [51] He was questioned under caution, and later that day released on police bail until October, but made no comment on his release. Andy: Well that didnt happen immediately, because theres a period of time between verdict and sentencing. When were your darkest days? I am very sorry for the mistakes that I made at the News of the World. And that was corrosive. And thats just not where I am. I have to say I managed to get to that point reasonably quickly and I ran it as a campaign. Then before I knew it I was standing on the landing and being put into a holding cell and then they told me Youre going to Suffolk, going to a place called Hollesley Bay.' Jane: So, there came a point where you thought, OK, I dont know how long Im going to be here. There were elements of my crisis that were entirely self-inflicted. And I just thought to myself, how the hell did I end up here? Andy: No, as I say, only during the course of a very long trial in the Old Bailey where I answered every question, I gave full evidence and answered every question that was asked of me by a fair number of lawyers and a judge. [21], Coulson resigned on 26 January 2007 over the News of the World phone hacking affair which would several weeks later see the jailing for four months of the paper's Royal correspondent Clive Goodman. Im absolutely sure that Im a better advisor as a result of what happened. I never asked for any favours at all from anyone, but what I didnt think was fair was for me to be treated differently. As every step forward you take, again without trying to get too poetic about it, that rucksack, which is how I see it, its a rucksack with a bunch of rocks in it and every six months or so it gets significantly lighter. I think, as you say, if she had decided enough was enough I dont think there is anyone who would have blamed her for it. I think there are probably people who think that I should still be in prison. Jane: Obviously, your boys came to see you there and you tried to keep it as jolly and normal as possible, but when they left that must have been hard. Weve made a lot of cups of tea for journalists standing on the end of our drive over the years, quite happily. [25], Coulson became the Conservative Party's director of communications on 9 July 2007. They were to work within the PCC code at all times". The Coulson Brothers - Mills Brothers Medley -Bass Guitar & Vocals - Curt CoulsonLead Guitar & Vocals - Jack CoulsonKeyboards & Vocals - Otis CliftonDrums & . But there are a whole bunch of mistakes from a leadership point of view, I was the boss. I think it was wrong. Jane: And I was going to say, in hindsight would you have taken that job? So, I will blub at kids school plays Jeremy Bowen and I actually talked about exactly that. Getty Images offers exclusive rights-ready and premium royalty-free analog, HD, and 4K video of the highest quality. Andy Coulson is Founder of www.coulsonpartners.com and host of www.crisiswhatcrisis.com. Funny, at least for the first 10 times. And then I noticed that the windows of the Serco van that I was in were rose-tinted. Andy: Well, I think because of the podcast series. Then before you know it, because my sentencing was first in the order of the day, if you like, in the Old Bailey, I was then sat in that cell and was there for quite a while because they keep you there until the end of play and then everyone gets put on the bus and ferried off. So when I was taken from the cell, youre then handcuffed and you line up and you wait to get on the bus. Jane: So, tell me, what was a typical day at Belmarsh? In this first episode of the second series, Andy puts himself on the other side of the microphone and talks to journalist and broadcaster Jane Moore about his five-year crisis. [32] It later emerged that he was still being paid by News International while working for the then opposition leader. [48], However, the Crown Prosecution Service said in December 2010 that it had determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge Coulson over allegations that he was aware of phone-hacking at the publication. Jane: I wanted to talk about Eloise now. We built a brilliant team, we had the coalition. Is that why you resigned? Coulson married his wife, Eloise, in 2000. Simple as that, and theres a lot of that that goes on. Because his family relocated frequently, he had lived in seven cities by the time he was 17. And I took the view that this is what it is and it is just another place, a pretty unpleasant one, but its just another place. He subsequently joined David Cameron's personnel as communications director, until announcing his departure on 21 January 2011 because of continued media coverage of the phone-hacking affair. Do you think thats fair? Andy: I have, yeah, and weve had that discussion. Thats why I resigned from the News of the World and then when I was in Downing Street, Im there thinking how on Earth can I do this job? Andy: Oh yeah, without any shadow of a doubt and thats thanks to her, not me. I spent five years talking about it. We were doing, it sounds ridiculous, Dragons Den presentations of ideas for what they were going to do when they got released, and mock interviews. Andy Coulson, the British prime minister's former communications chief, has been arrested by detectives investigating allegations of phone hacking at the Sunday tabloid, the News of the World . Responsibility for the monitoring, control and mitigation of Conduct Risk for the Group. Andy: Well, losing people, like we all have. David Cameron's former spin doctor Andy Coulson was among seven people in court earlier charged in connection with the phone hacking scandal. Which do you think it was? And they were nothing short of incredible. All I know is that when I took the job, actually, I said to him, Im taking this job, David, on the basis that I will not go into Downing Street because that was the deal Id done with Eloise. We are all hard workers. [42] Coulson has denied these latest claims. Downfall of the 'Essex boy done good': Andy Coulson's journey to Downing Street and how his wife stood by him as the hacking trial exposed his infidelity and forced him to sell their 1.65m house. It was between governors and there was a proper shortage of staff. Monty was 12? Andy: Well I will always argue that the mistakes were not criminal, because thats what I spent a lot of time standing in a witness box arguing and because its what I believe. A Stratford employment tribunal upheld a claim of unfair dismissal claimed by senior sports writer Matt Driscoll, and stated "We find the behaviour to have been a consistent pattern of bullying behaviour". Youve got to find your match and Ive definitely done that. The second, I think, would be music, which has also been incredibly important for me and for the family. I dont know, but it was incredibly frustrating. So, I knew at that point that Id be going to prison and that was obviously not where I thought my life would take me. And it is all about cues and nudges that push you in a certain direction and I just try and avoid those. They take your clothes when you go to prison, which I think is sensible. Hacked Celebrity VoicmailsWhose voicemails has Jorg Coulson been hacking into this week? Andy: Yeah, always. Jane: Did you attempt to draw perspective from other sources? There are very, very few of them that I continue to feel any sort of disappointment about, because people have got their own lives and you see that very quickly. It was reported that as a condition of his early release on home detention curfew (HDC) Coulson would have to wear an electronic tag until he had served half of his full sentence. And Eloise, who is a considerably more evolved human being than I am, knew that long before I did and shes trained me well in that regard. Andy: Yeah, I have occasional grey days. So, I was a very willing crisis volunteer long before I became a conscript. Andy: Better than the alternative. Jane: So, you have to sit there on your own. Andy: Well Belmarsh is also a building thats out of central casting, if I can put it that way. Andy: Dangers of drug smuggling and all manner of other suggested uses for books. Jane: Hard not to be, though, I would have thought. I wasnt forced to be a tabloid newspaper editor and I wasnt forced to be a Tory spin doctor, if thats the description you want to use. And then I was told its 18 months and before you know it, youre through that green door and youre handcuffed and youre taken down to the cells. Jane: I remember coming to see you with Eloise and the boys and you all sort of sit in a gymnasium, dont you? And I talked them through it and I explained that Id been found guilty and that Id be going to a prison and then Id be moved at some point to an open prison and then they could come and see me. That Id go from one to the other in custody, if you like. Because they, obviously, are the most important thing in my life, along with Eloise, and I wanted them to see that I was OK. I was an ex-Murdoch employee in government and a lot of people really didnt like that and saw a lot of conspiracies within that, that I was some kind of stooge, which I absolutely was not. "[29][30], In July 2011 questions were raised about Coulson's security vetting at Number Ten. I think woe is me are probably the three most useless words in any event. Search instead in Creative? So, when you came back after being found guilty and before going back to be sentenced, you had that time at home. The judge actually criticised the timing of the statement and said he was unsure whether it was out of ignorance or deliberate. Dead reporter's brother at inquiry. Beginning the Entrepreneurial Journey. If thats how he feels, thats how he feels. During the course of the first series, there have been a few moments where people have asked me, guests have asked me, about my own experiences and Ive been happy to give a response. And its like eating rotten fruit. I saw him in January. [20], He became deputy editor of the News of the World, the Sunday sister paper of The Sun, in 2000. I ran it as a campaign in my head and I had charts on the wall, at one stage the house was literally full of files. And to have a prime minister on television, while my jury was still out, although theyd delivered a verdict on the intercepting communications, they hadnt delivered a verdict on another charge that was later dropped. Andy: On the morning that I knew I was going to prison, I went to the back of my garden (I live out in the country), I went over the fence and into a field and then eventually I arranged for a local cab. The two others, well one of them got dropped and one I was acquitted, but thats the system. Jane: As you say, its high security for a reason, because there are some pretty serious criminals in there. But the bigger point for me is that number of people who ran into the gunfire for me, who owed me nothing and who have become unbelievable friends and support to me and to the family. [18], On 1 June 2015, the judge, Lord Burns, acquitted Coulson. That was very difficult. Jane: And when they came to visit Belmarsh, because a lot of people listening to this will never have been to a Category A prison, even to visit, why is that your regret? So, although they were still pretty young, theyd had a crash course in the law and in the legal process, if you like, already. And that brings with it a whole bunch of other issues as well. And I had so much incoming. Suddenly youre on trial at the Old Bailey and youre hearing the word guilty; tell us about that moment. Jane: Because it had been quite a high-profile trial. I think he had people advising him at that stage, obviously. Andy: Their choice really. Youve got to accept it, your good decisions and your bad decisions, and you have just got to move forward so trying to unpick in the past ask me from the point of a mental health issue, if you like, without doubt the most damaging, corrosive thing, is that reliving the past. There were some fights, but never anything directed at me and nothing that caused me to feel scared in Belmarsh and certainly not when I got to Hollesley Bay, which was a different regime altogether. And that is, I have to say, largely thanks to Eloise because shes, maybe well get on to it, the reason I got through is her. I like to think Im a better husband; I like to think Im a better father, a better friend. My mum, who has had a lot of difficulty in her life, is an amazing woman and shes incredibly resilient. And then before you know it youre back in court with a suitcase, waiting to find out how long youre going to go to prison for. Im undoubtedly happier. I know Harvey was, what, 14? Andy: It was boiling hot and it was a glorious summer, as I said. Jane: So, youre packing your bag. Again, that came out in a previous podcast, I think with Jeremy. [6][7], Coulson was arrested by the Metropolitan Police Service on 8 July 2011 in connection with allegations of corruption and phone hacking. I saw him at the beginning of the year. And that visiting thing, the rule is if you kind of cross the line into the visit and your visitor doesnt turn up youre not allowed to leave and that can be brutal. A thoroughly depressing experience, with barbed wire around you and over you, actually, to stop helicopters coming in. I would say I felt anxious right at the start, because its the unknown. Former News of the World editors Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson were having an affair for at least six years from the late 1990s, the phone-hacking trial has heard. I was told, because there was a view that the Scottish case, because it was such a nonsense, would be dropped. This podcast is about a crisis and how you get through it. And the other, in the same way as I have just said that I got enormous enjoyment from the political job, there is also a danger that because my newspaper career ended so badly, that you, sort of, chuck out all the good stuff there. Jane: Were obviously talking about a whole series crises in a way with you, its like crisis Whac-A-Mole. Jane: Another clich is that you never know what youve got until theres a danger that you might lose it, which must have been a very real possibility in terms of your marriage in your own head. I use a guy who lives up in Scotland, Ron, who is just outstanding and I still talk to him from time to time now. Trusted, high impact counsel, campaigns and crisis management for leaders, from Andy Coulson, Jon Steafel, Susan Adams and team. 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